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Well my post on Milosevic got some excitement, if you look in the comments a foaming at the mouth Serb, who on the one hand makes a fair point about atrocities committed by all sides in the Balkans, but then defends Milosevic because you see if YOUR side commits some murder, rape and pillaging in the name of self-defence (including setting up a state just for your own kind, never mind if your neighbour has a different ancestry) it’s ok. That's why I have posted a swastika - because it is precisely the same philosophy as Hitler.
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Let’s make it clear, I fully defend the right of any person, anywhere to defend themselves, their family and their property from attack. That attack can come from your neighbour, a gang of thugs, invading army or indeed, your own government. If “anonymous the hater” had bothered to read a bit more about who I am and my philosophy, he (I assume it is male) would know this.
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I could go into the chain of events in Yugoslavia which, since I don’t come from there, I couldn’t possibly be allowed to have an opinion on (hey can’t judge the Holocaust either, how could I POSSIBLY know what the Germans were going through), but what it comes down to is one simple philosophy:
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“Our side is better than your side, and we'll kill you to prove it”
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It is a childish, pre-modern, knuckle dragging nationalism – where who you are and who your friends are is based on ancestry. That is why “anonymous the hater” likes Milosevic – he authorised the oppression of thousands of people, but hey “he was one of our guys”.
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Opposing Milosevic does not mean I don’t also oppose the nationalism of deceased Croat leader Franjo Tudjman, or the Janus like Alija Izetbegovic (Bosnian Muslim leader). A curse on all their houses when they advocate murder.
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“Anonymous the hater” however is a knuckle dragging nationalist, who Hitler, Milosevic, Pavelic and the KKK would be proud of. Let me dissect his response:
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Scott, you are so full of blind fury and hate against people you do not know in place you have never been.
Well my post on Milosevic got some excitement, if you look in the comments a foaming at the mouth Serb, who on the one hand makes a fair point about atrocities committed by all sides in the Balkans, but then defends Milosevic because you see if YOUR side commits some murder, rape and pillaging in the name of self-defence (including setting up a state just for your own kind, never mind if your neighbour has a different ancestry) it’s ok. That's why I have posted a swastika - because it is precisely the same philosophy as Hitler.
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Let’s make it clear, I fully defend the right of any person, anywhere to defend themselves, their family and their property from attack. That attack can come from your neighbour, a gang of thugs, invading army or indeed, your own government. If “anonymous the hater” had bothered to read a bit more about who I am and my philosophy, he (I assume it is male) would know this.
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I could go into the chain of events in Yugoslavia which, since I don’t come from there, I couldn’t possibly be allowed to have an opinion on (hey can’t judge the Holocaust either, how could I POSSIBLY know what the Germans were going through), but what it comes down to is one simple philosophy:
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“Our side is better than your side, and we'll kill you to prove it”
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It is a childish, pre-modern, knuckle dragging nationalism – where who you are and who your friends are is based on ancestry. That is why “anonymous the hater” likes Milosevic – he authorised the oppression of thousands of people, but hey “he was one of our guys”.
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Opposing Milosevic does not mean I don’t also oppose the nationalism of deceased Croat leader Franjo Tudjman, or the Janus like Alija Izetbegovic (Bosnian Muslim leader). A curse on all their houses when they advocate murder.
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“Anonymous the hater” however is a knuckle dragging nationalist, who Hitler, Milosevic, Pavelic and the KKK would be proud of. Let me dissect his response:
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Scott, you are so full of blind fury and hate against people you do not know in place you have never been.
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Pot calling the kettle black I think. I don’t have blind fury and hatred, I simply hate anyone who advocates murder, rape and deportation – it is utterly vile and disgusting. In this case, this was done en masse by Serb forces, and also committed by Croat and Bosnian Muslim forces as well. YOU have blind fury and hatred against Bosnian Muslims not just those who kill, but by implication the lot – you may as well advocate concentration camps and gas chambers. Actually there were camps where Bosnian Serb forces raped and abused civilians – but that’s ok because you say…
Pot calling the kettle black I think. I don’t have blind fury and hatred, I simply hate anyone who advocates murder, rape and deportation – it is utterly vile and disgusting. In this case, this was done en masse by Serb forces, and also committed by Croat and Bosnian Muslim forces as well. YOU have blind fury and hatred against Bosnian Muslims not just those who kill, but by implication the lot – you may as well advocate concentration camps and gas chambers. Actually there were camps where Bosnian Serb forces raped and abused civilians – but that’s ok because you say…
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I hate muslims with reason - majority of them think of themselves as superior and justified by god to do whatever they want to non-muslims.
I hate muslims with reason - majority of them think of themselves as superior and justified by god to do whatever they want to non-muslims.
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How do you know this? Asked them? Is not saying that simply showing YOU think of yourself as superior? So this justifies Bosnian Serb forces raping women and young girls because, hey, you’re superior and justified in raping and killing because YOU think THEY think they are superior. Think about it. You’re the same as those you accuse. You think you're in their heads, when you know nothing - it is no different to Hitler justifying gassing Jews for the same reason.
How do you know this? Asked them? Is not saying that simply showing YOU think of yourself as superior? So this justifies Bosnian Serb forces raping women and young girls because, hey, you’re superior and justified in raping and killing because YOU think THEY think they are superior. Think about it. You’re the same as those you accuse. You think you're in their heads, when you know nothing - it is no different to Hitler justifying gassing Jews for the same reason.
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My christian ancestors in Bosnia delt with hundreds of years of forced conversions, stealing christian children to be raised as yanisari, church burning, impalings on stake (read nobel prize winer Ivo Andric Bridge on river Drina) and other forms of genocide by muslims.
My christian ancestors in Bosnia delt with hundreds of years of forced conversions, stealing christian children to be raised as yanisari, church burning, impalings on stake (read nobel prize winer Ivo Andric Bridge on river Drina) and other forms of genocide by muslims.
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You didn’t face this, and the Bosnian Muslims living today didn’t do this either – grow up – you’re not responsible for what your ancestors did, and they are not for what their ancestors did. The Cranberries song “Zombie” says a bit about the attitude you are showing.
You didn’t face this, and the Bosnian Muslims living today didn’t do this either – grow up – you’re not responsible for what your ancestors did, and they are not for what their ancestors did. The Cranberries song “Zombie” says a bit about the attitude you are showing.
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And we did not want to exterminate them, only to carve out our own state formed by bosnian counties where we were majority.
And we did not want to exterminate them, only to carve out our own state formed by bosnian counties where we were majority.
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Oops, shame that Srebrenica happened then – “we didn’t want to round up all the men and boys and execute them, we were just carving out a state, we just made a little mistake”. Can't make an omelette without cracking a few eggs then? By the way, if every nationality in the world formed states from majority areas there would be many many thousands of countries, and it would be ungovernable. Most European countries have significant national minorities, you see many people look past ancestry. Bosnia was not majority Muslim, it was roughly 43/31/17 between Muslim, Serb and Croat - it would not have threatened Serbs or Muslims, though that is exactly what Milosevic and Tudjman claimed after stitching up their deal to partition Bosnia between them.
Oops, shame that Srebrenica happened then – “we didn’t want to round up all the men and boys and execute them, we were just carving out a state, we just made a little mistake”. Can't make an omelette without cracking a few eggs then? By the way, if every nationality in the world formed states from majority areas there would be many many thousands of countries, and it would be ungovernable. Most European countries have significant national minorities, you see many people look past ancestry. Bosnia was not majority Muslim, it was roughly 43/31/17 between Muslim, Serb and Croat - it would not have threatened Serbs or Muslims, though that is exactly what Milosevic and Tudjman claimed after stitching up their deal to partition Bosnia between them.
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As far as muslims beeing peacefull and democratic, their police celebrates as holiday the day of forming secret paramilitaly units in Bosnia in 1989 - fully 3 years prior to referendum on bosnian independance.
As far as muslims beeing peacefull and democratic, their police celebrates as holiday the day of forming secret paramilitaly units in Bosnia in 1989 - fully 3 years prior to referendum on bosnian independance.
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The police – ok - well that covers all the civilians, including the boys and girls killed or raped. In 1989 Milosevic abolished Kosovo’s autonomy and prohibited the use of Albanian in schools, cracking down on the use of the language throughout the province, but that's ok because although Albanians were 90% of the population (see they want a state too because they are the majority there), Serbs lost a war there in 1389 and that is a reason to run the province as a police state over the majority, like South Africa under apartheid. “Their side is worse than our side” doesn’t wash. In fact, you're argument is utterly banal.
The police – ok - well that covers all the civilians, including the boys and girls killed or raped. In 1989 Milosevic abolished Kosovo’s autonomy and prohibited the use of Albanian in schools, cracking down on the use of the language throughout the province, but that's ok because although Albanians were 90% of the population (see they want a state too because they are the majority there), Serbs lost a war there in 1389 and that is a reason to run the province as a police state over the majority, like South Africa under apartheid. “Their side is worse than our side” doesn’t wash. In fact, you're argument is utterly banal.
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Referendum itself was illegal since existing bosnian constitution at that time prohibited any major decisions to be made without all 3 ethnic groups agreement.
Referendum itself was illegal since existing bosnian constitution at that time prohibited any major decisions to be made without all 3 ethnic groups agreement.
Milosevic didn’t care much for constitutions when he overrode the constitutional autonomy of Kosovo did he? I doubt that constitutions matter much in an authoritarian state anyway.
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And muslim own demographic institute (easily found on the web) shows that out of 289,000 people killed in the was only about half were mulsims, and their civilian to military casualty ratio was 2:1. One third of the victims in the war were serbs, with civilian to soldier ration 5:1. In fact if you compare numbers of civilians killed in war, it was around 90,000 muslims versus 72,000 serbs - for poor defensless victims of genocide they did pretty well.
And muslim own demographic institute (easily found on the web) shows that out of 289,000 people killed in the was only about half were mulsims, and their civilian to military casualty ratio was 2:1. One third of the victims in the war were serbs, with civilian to soldier ration 5:1. In fact if you compare numbers of civilians killed in war, it was around 90,000 muslims versus 72,000 serbs - for poor defensless victims of genocide they did pretty well.
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Stalin said 1 person dying is a tragedy but 1 million is a statistic. It is ALL bad – I never denied that, regardless of whose statistics you use.
Stalin said 1 person dying is a tragedy but 1 million is a statistic. It is ALL bad – I never denied that, regardless of whose statistics you use.
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Muslims had much higher military casualties due to inferior armament and organization in the beggining, but soldiers killed in the battle are not victims of genocide (according to muslims they are martirs) plus they started the war fully aware that they are weaker.
Muslims had much higher military casualties due to inferior armament and organization in the beggining, but soldiers killed in the battle are not victims of genocide (according to muslims they are martirs) plus they started the war fully aware that they are weaker.
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Yes, the Yugoslav National Army was controlled by Milosevic and armed the Serb forces – not exactly a fair distribution of military resources funded by all republics. I don’t know what evidence there is to say that the Bosnian army attacked Serbia after the republic declared independence, and what evidence there is that the Bosnian government started killing Bosnian Serbs as part of official policy. If there is, I’d be interested. Many Bosnian Muslims were quite secular in outlook, not the fundamentalists that you paint them to be.
Yes, the Yugoslav National Army was controlled by Milosevic and armed the Serb forces – not exactly a fair distribution of military resources funded by all republics. I don’t know what evidence there is to say that the Bosnian army attacked Serbia after the republic declared independence, and what evidence there is that the Bosnian government started killing Bosnian Serbs as part of official policy. If there is, I’d be interested. Many Bosnian Muslims were quite secular in outlook, not the fundamentalists that you paint them to be.
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Nobody in the west ever quotes these numbers, even though they are provided by muslim sources, it is always said that as a consequence of serb "genocide" several hundred thousand people were killed.
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Well there was genocide, maybe 30,000 Bosnian Muslim civilians killed deliberately – you can’t deny Srebrenica was genocide, it was akin to the Nazis eradicating Jews from towns. Anyway, you are arguing statistics – there were plenty of Serb victims as that is no less a tragedy, but please stop denying that some on the side you support were barbaric murderers, just like some on the sides you hate were.
Well there was genocide, maybe 30,000 Bosnian Muslim civilians killed deliberately – you can’t deny Srebrenica was genocide, it was akin to the Nazis eradicating Jews from towns. Anyway, you are arguing statistics – there were plenty of Serb victims as that is no less a tragedy, but please stop denying that some on the side you support were barbaric murderers, just like some on the sides you hate were.
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We bosnian serns wanted the same deal protestants in norther ireland got - to stay with mother nation when others want to secede. Since you live in Britain you can relate to that.
We bosnian serns wanted the same deal protestants in norther ireland got - to stay with mother nation when others want to secede. Since you live in Britain you can relate to that.
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Yes I know of the disaster of Northern Ireland from 1920. Another example of mindless knuckle draggers hating each other because of ancestry and religion. Fortunately increasing number of Irish people have grown up, since Ireland is in the EU and the border between Ireland and the UK is very porous. There are no issues of trade or migration between them. There are communities in northern Ireland where foaming at the mouth hate filled cretins despise Catholics or Protestants because of who they are – but it’s just mindless bigotry. Look beyond it, it makes no sense whatsoever.
Yes I know of the disaster of Northern Ireland from 1920. Another example of mindless knuckle draggers hating each other because of ancestry and religion. Fortunately increasing number of Irish people have grown up, since Ireland is in the EU and the border between Ireland and the UK is very porous. There are no issues of trade or migration between them. There are communities in northern Ireland where foaming at the mouth hate filled cretins despise Catholics or Protestants because of who they are – but it’s just mindless bigotry. Look beyond it, it makes no sense whatsoever.
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Keep your rabid foamy blogger mouth off balkans, you lowlife scum, and do not insult the memory of bosnian serb heroes including my brother who defended their own people, and west indirectly. Hope some muslim brother blows you up in suicide bombing in London to thank you for your support of muslim cause.
Keep your rabid foamy blogger mouth off balkans, you lowlife scum, and do not insult the memory of bosnian serb heroes including my brother who defended their own people, and west indirectly. Hope some muslim brother blows you up in suicide bombing in London to thank you for your support of muslim cause.
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I love you too, I wouldn’t wish ill will upon you, until now - you ARE lowlife scum for hoping I get murdered because you simply disagree with me. Zeig Heil you fascist bully. I’ll comment on whatever I like, it’s called freedom of speech. Something that Yugoslavia didn’t have under Tito and which Milosevic wasn’t too keen on either. I don’t know if your brother is a hero or not, I wouldn’t dare judge individuals, but he didn't defend the West. Bosnia threatened no other country. You, on the other hand, would cheerily shoot, rape and terrorise men, women and children because of their ancestry. You want me killed because of what I have written – congratulations, Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, Saddam, Pavelic and Milosevic would be proud. Your attitudes belong in 1389, Serbs I know would prefer you joined the 21st century and looked forward. Imagine just for a minute what it would be like to treat people as individuals, if you didn't know their ancestry and join the enlightenment.
I love you too, I wouldn’t wish ill will upon you, until now - you ARE lowlife scum for hoping I get murdered because you simply disagree with me. Zeig Heil you fascist bully. I’ll comment on whatever I like, it’s called freedom of speech. Something that Yugoslavia didn’t have under Tito and which Milosevic wasn’t too keen on either. I don’t know if your brother is a hero or not, I wouldn’t dare judge individuals, but he didn't defend the West. Bosnia threatened no other country. You, on the other hand, would cheerily shoot, rape and terrorise men, women and children because of their ancestry. You want me killed because of what I have written – congratulations, Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, Saddam, Pavelic and Milosevic would be proud. Your attitudes belong in 1389, Serbs I know would prefer you joined the 21st century and looked forward. Imagine just for a minute what it would be like to treat people as individuals, if you didn't know their ancestry and join the enlightenment.
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UPDATE:
Just to prove my balance on the Balkans here is:
No sympathy for Slobo (more on Milosevic) and
Remember Srebrenica (the other side of Alija Izetbegovic and the tragedy of Serb deaths unreported)
1 comment:
Once again, I applaud you for responding to ruthlessly unreasonable attacks and articulating your thoughts in such a brilliant way. Please keep our spirits up with your exciting and fresh ideas. I've become a fan of yours. You've probably seen that your blog was quoted in Slate magazine (http://www.slate.com/id/2137990/)
Sincerely,
Leo
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